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Page history last edited by Teresa Almeida d'Eca 10 years, 7 months ago


Rubena St. Louis Session 



Friday, 4 February 2011



Guest Speaker: Rubena St. Louis (Venezuela)

Coordinator: Teresa Almeida d'Eca (Portugal)

Moderators: Larisa (USA), Helen (France), Fernanda (Portugal), Valentina (Russia)

Participants: Lana (Ukraine), Svetlana (Czech Republic), Marijana (Croatia), Halima (Uzbekistan), Wen Jun/Jasmine (France), Juan (Argentina), Rosana (Saudi Arabia), Carroll (???), Derya (Turkey).








Session Recording


Materials Creation 





Joined on 4 de Fevereiro de 2011 at 15:03
Halima [Halima]: do you hear me?
silipa [undisclosed]: Hello Rubena
obenausova [undisclosed]: Hello Rubena
slrubena [Rubena]: Yes please
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: Hi Rubena
helend [helen]: Welcome Rubena
Moderator (slrubena [Rubena]): Thank you all
silipa [undisclosed]: Hi HelenD
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: yes
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: :)
baw2010Lana [undisclosed] 1: Lana. Hello Rubena
WJcn [undisclosed]: hello this is jasmine
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Hello Rubena
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: yes
silipa [undisclosed]: Good afternoon!
Me: hello everyone
obenausova [undisclosed]: Yes
WJcn [undisclosed]: ya
silipa [undisclosed]: yes
Me: yes
silipa [undisclosed]: don't worry
silipa [undisclosed]: yes
Moderator (Session Leader 1): let me intro you
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: I think I missed the name of the session leader 1 :(
Moderator (slrubena [Rubena]): OK no problem
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Derya the name is Rubena
helend [helen]: Session leader is Teresa !
helend [helen]: And Larissa is in the driving seat too !
silipa [undisclosed]: Larrisa is a great "driver"
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): TY Marijana
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: oh, ok! thank you all! I thought it was Teresa from her voice, but wanted to make sure :) thank you
silipa [undisclosed]: welcome
Halima [Halima]: is my mic off?
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Yes, Teresa's name is not in there -Derya
helend [helen]: Halima you can see who has the mic - it's yellow
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Teresa is Session Leader 1
Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Hi Juan
JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: Hi
JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: thanks
helend [helen]: Hi Juan you made it !!
obenausova [undisclosed]: Through the door?
obenausova [undisclosed]: On the right?
silipa [undisclosed]: Bravo Teresa , good intreduction
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: hi Juan
JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: :-)
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: everything is clear, thanks Teresa
WJcn [undisclosed]: ya
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: yes
obenausova [undisclosed]: Yes
silipa [undisclosed]: i do yes
Me: yes
Moderator (slrubena [Rubena]): yes
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: yes
obenausova [undisclosed]: cake
Halima [Halima]: yes we see
kulavuzd [Derya] 4: :)
silipa [undisclosed]: yes cake mmmm
JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: mmm
JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: that's the dissert in a

minutes I'm having lunch

silipa [undisclosed]: good for you Juan

silipa [undisclosed]: dinner time here

obenausova [undisclosed]: almost

helend [helen]: Nearly teatime here ! (France)

silipa [undisclosed]: oh yes Helen teat time

obenausova [undisclosed]: Hi Ayat

helend [helen]: Hi Ayat

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: it's early morning in Florida.. 10 am

silipa [undisclosed]: Hi Ayat I have read the papers

today, hope you are fine,

Ayat [undisclosed]: Hi to u all

silipa [undisclosed]: Derya good morning!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yummy!!!!!

kulavuzd [Derya] 4:  

Ayat [undisclosed]: My best moments are those i spend with


Moderator (Session Leader 1): ayat, so glad you're here

with us   

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: good morning slipa!  

silipa [undisclosed]: Hope it gets better soon

Ayat [undisclosed]: hope i haven't missed alot

silipa [undisclosed]: Derya  

Moderator (Session Leader 1): we sure will, rubena   

Ayat [undisclosed]: who is mod??

helend [helen]: No Ayat - you're just in time  

silipa [undisclosed]: following Rubena now

kulavuzd [Derya] 4:  

Moderator (Session Leader 1): great catchy slide   

ValentinaSi [Valentina]: don't have a headset, cause I'm

at work. can't speak

silipa [undisclosed]: diabtetic ):

Ayat [undisclosed]: who isour moderator? larissa?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): welcome, vale!

ValentinaSi [Valentina]: only listen to Rubena

Moderator (Session Leader 1): teresa and larissa

helend [helen]: Ayat - the mods are Larissa and Teresa

Ayat [undisclosed]: lovely  

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: we are the ones who know our students

better than the others

Moderator (Session Leader 1):    ayat

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: better than a textbook

obenausova [undisclosed]: Will we have the slides too


helend [helen]: Good point Derya

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

obenausova [undisclosed]: Or shall I take notes?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): no need to, svetlana

obenausova [undisclosed]: Good

Moderator (Session Leader 1): just ears and eyes wide open

silipa [undisclosed]: yes Rubena, I agree

silipa [undisclosed]: me too ears and eyes

Moderator (Session Leader 1): such a wide variety!

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: anything you see in your daily life

could well be a material if you look from that perspective

I think

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sure, derya

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: I totally agree

silipa [undisclosed]: yes derya

silipa [undisclosed]: Creativity very important, ideas

Moderator (Session Leader 1): lovely slides, rubena   

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: I think that Language has to

be taught in context and with posters, etc, to make it


Moderator (Session Leader 1): right, juan

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: I agree Juan

Ayat [undisclosed]: build on their own knowledge not on

what we want them to knw!

Ayat [undisclosed]: know

Moderator (Session Leader 1): thinking is so important

Moderator (Session Leader 1): i agree ayat

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: I agree, and the teacher

should create that via different activities, because

thinking will not pop up magically from our students ifn

they arenot trained to think

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: like in cooking; we always build up on

what we know before..  

silipa [undisclosed]:  

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: so true Rubena

Ayat [undisclosed]: right, it's very important!

obenausova [undisclosed]: My experience with English in


Moderator (Session Leader 1): LOL

obenausova [undisclosed]: I did not understand a word.

After 10 years of learning English

silipa [undisclosed]: hhahaaha

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: It happened to me on a bus

from Oxford to London, I could not get what the bus driver

was trying to tel me!

obenausova [undisclosed]: Now I do and I love Scottish


Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

silipa [undisclosed]: my students like to listen Scottish


silipa [undisclosed]: when we do listening skills

helend [helen]: Some English people cannot understand the

Scottish !

silipa [undisclosed]: mostly

silipa [undisclosed]: the accent si great

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: I've seen a phrase on the university

board saying "fan us on Facebook" in which "fan" is used

as a verb for example! that shows how dynamic a language


obenausova [undisclosed]: I started to after one year


JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: I have been told that English

is a language which can turn many of its nouns into verbs!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): definitely, rubena. the

emotional level is sooo important

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: so true Juan    I agree

silipa [undisclosed]: o words are changed every day

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: especially with the influence of

technology! slipa..

silipa [undisclosed]: yes,

silipa [undisclosed]: that's why I use urban dictionary

every day

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: Language is evolving at such a

speed thanks to the ICT

silipa [undisclosed]: yes Juan

silipa [undisclosed]: to build confidence in speaking is

very important

rosana [R] 1: Hi everyone

silipa [undisclosed]: link to urban dictionary for so many

new words that appear in English language


kulavuzd [Derya] 4: hi Rosana welcome!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): welcome, rosana and


JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: it is and I guess that pair

work and having them talk among themselves is esenciall,

as they do not feel fears to make mistakes in front of the


Ayat [undisclosed]: Hi Rosana

helend [helen]: Hi Rosana

rosana [R] 1: Hi Ayat

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: ohh.. thank you silipa! I was thinking

about it

silipa [undisclosed]: welcome

rosana [R] 1: Hi HELEN

helend [helen]:  

rosana [R] 1: THNX SILIPA

helend [helen]: Hi Alexandra

ValentinaSi [Valentina]: have to leave now, I'll try at


Halima [Halima]: every LEARNER is so Unique

silipa [undisclosed]: good point rubena form large to


helend [helen]: bye Valentina

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye vale. ty

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: see you Valentina

silipa [undisclosed]: bye V

rosana [R] 1: yes rubena

silipa [undisclosed]: yes, boooring to have the same

Moderator (Session Leader 1): right

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Hi all! still have no sound  

Moderator (Session Leader 1): we also like variety in our

food, right?

rosana [R] 1: chk ur audio settings

silipa [undisclosed]: right

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: definitely! teresa!

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Alexandra could you go to

Tools - Audi-Audio Set Up Wizard above?

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: I can't eat the same food everyday,


Moderator (Session Leader 1): alexandra, go to Tools >

Audio > Audio setup wizard

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: I've refreshed my settings -

thank you Larissa

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Alexandra and go through

seting speakers and mic there

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): do you hear Alexandra?

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: but unfortunately sometimes preparing

the same type of activity saves time, and makes the job

easier on our part    that's why it might be tempting at


rosana [R] 1: why don't u relog alex?

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: No, I don't

silipa [undisclosed]: feed back is very important to them

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Alexandra what speaker do

you use? You may loff of and come back

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: done it but I'll try again  

rosana [R] 1: see if sound of ur computer is muted

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Alexandra log out and come

back check mute or not mute your volume

Ayat [undisclosed]: even feedback on the knid of

activities you use is great!!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): a pat on the shoulder   

Ayat [undisclosed]: they feel their opinionis imp and

motivates them alot and u also can find appreciation which

is great for u too

rosana [R] 1:  

silipa [undisclosed]: facebook

silipa [undisclosed]: son is home

Moderator (Session Leader 1): LOL marijana

Moderator (Session Leader 1): disturbance will start   

silipa [undisclosed]: had to show me sth he did in school

mask of a pirate

silipa [undisclosed]: probably

rosana [R] 1:  

Moderator (Session Leader 1): how cute

helend [helen]: Of course it's carnaval time soon !

Moderator (Session Leader 1): right, helen

silipa [undisclosed]: yes

silipa [undisclosed]: hubby checking schoolwork, mummy

will later

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: got the same message as in the

previous session with Graham: "Cannot connect to speaker

but will keep trying"

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Does anyone else have this


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): please Alexandra

obenausova [undisclosed]: Deegle?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): how frustrating, alexandra!

so sorry

helend [helen]: No sorry Alexandra  

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): what did set up wizzard

say Alexandra?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): i never got an explanation

from elluminate   

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: just refresh your settings

Ayat [undisclosed]: Nick Peachy is a great one!!!!!

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): have you gone through test


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): and click on yes

helend [helen]: Larry's feed is great

silipa [undisclosed]: puzzlemaker great

silipa [undisclosed]: loved it

helend [helen]: always a first stop for planning lessons

rosana [R] 1: rubena excellent session

rosana [R] 1: thnx mods and all of u guys

Moderator (Session Leader 1):    rosana. always

rosana [R] 1: sorry have 2 go now. Lunch time  

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): bye Rosana

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye rosana. ty for coming

rosana [R] 1: I ll listen 2 the recording thank u 4 that

Ayat [undisclosed]: see u Rosana  

rosana [R] 1: enjoy ur time all    bye

rosana [R] 1: Bye ayat

silipa [undisclosed]: bye Rosana

fernanda [Fernanda]: bye, Rosana

obenausova [undisclosed]: Does anybody know the other site

organizer like delicious? She mentioned it, did not get

it. Deezle? Beezle?

fernanda [Fernanda]: diigo

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: Diigo maybe?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): diggo

obenausova [undisclosed]: ?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): diggo

obenausova [undisclosed]: Thanks

Moderator (Session Leader 1):  

helend [helen]: I'd moved everything to diigo - delicious

was in danger of closing ...

obenausova [undisclosed]: OK, I'll start with diigo

helend [helen]: But haven't heard much since the last


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Welcome Caroll

helend [helen]: Hi Caroll

caroll [caroll]: thank you

silipa [undisclosed]: me too HelenD

obenausova [undisclosed]: I use annotated word document

caroll [caroll]: hi

silipa [undisclosed]: hi carol

caroll [caroll]: hi everyone

obenausova [undisclosed]: Yes, that always happens to me

Ayat [undisclosed]: hi carol!

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Hi Carol!

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: I have to go now    I will watch the

rest of it from the recording.. Thank you so much Rubena!

Your slides are great, what you share is great! and thanks

to the moderators! see you all later online!

helend [helen]: You should try Diiigo Svetlana !

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Bye Derya ty for coming

obenausova [undisclosed]: I will for sure

helend [helen]: Bye Derya

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye derya

silipa [undisclosed]: bye Derya

kulavuzd [Derya] 4: bye everybody!

fernanda [Fernanda]: bye

silipa [undisclosed]: one computer

silipa [undisclosed]: 1 computer on 20 students for me not

mnagable have to print mine or send them links to do at

home online

Moderator (Session Leader 1): i used one computer with

26-28 students and t worked very well marijana

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: got sound    but only through

speakers -Adobe doesn't like my headset -lol

Moderator (Session Leader 1): i had a video projector and

all were involved

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Teresa used one computer

for 20 in Yakutsk last year and it worked

helend [helen]: Congrats Alexandra

silipa [undisclosed]: I know it can work they love

computers, I have a projeccor too, so some do with the

whole class

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Congrats Alexandra

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: In Argentina we are having one

netbook per students from this year on, and some teachers

do not want to use them, it's a pitty

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: @helen  

silipa [undisclosed]: I mean some tasks I do with a whole


helend [helen]: Send me the netbooks Juan

silipa [undisclosed]: Great for argentina

fernanda [Fernanda]:  

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): It is Juan

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: thanks

silipa [undisclosed]: me to Juan, send some hahaha

Moderator (Session Leader 1): right, rubena. how true re:

activities according to type of connection

helend [helen]: This is such good good advice !!

Halima [Halima]: in uzbekistan sts can work on Pcs

professors NO!!!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sure is, helen!

silipa [undisclosed]: yes we have to know how to use it


JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: why not Halima?

Halima [Halima]: too many professors of the old style

Halima [Halima]: they were communists meaning professors

of all things!

silipa [undisclosed]: We allow them to use computers for

exercise, they change , but the one who don't use them at

the moment have to have sth printed

Moderator (Session Leader 1): there's always a glitch

waiting around the corner for you   

silipa [undisclosed]: or bad connections

Halima [Halima]: Helen,I saw at your wiki MI thery

Halima [Halima]: applied to ICT?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): absolutely. foresee problems

but keep it cool

Moderator (Session Leader 1): keep your cool, better said

Halima [Halima]: Helen!i am working on MI theory too

Moderator (Session Leader 1): great table, rubena! very


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Teresa have you used

Rubena's table in Yakutsk? We should.

helend [helen]: Halima - it wasn't my wiki - just a wiki

I'm a member of and like a lot !

Moderator (Session Leader 1): no. i hadn't seen it before,

as far as i remember

obenausova [undisclosed]: Which one?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): LOL

Halima [Halima]: but i saw it there Right/

Moderator (Session Leader 1): LOL rubena. retarded and

back in time!!!

helend [helen]: We used cellphones in class last week -

the computer room was down !

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Svetlana -which one you

are asking?

silipa [undisclosed]: very important

obenausova [undisclosed]: Helen, which wiki?

Moderator (Session Leader 1): way to go, helen!!

helend [helen]: With a smart phone we posted to Posterous

after (a proud moment !)

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: great

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: when there's a will there's a


Moderator (Session Leader 1): for sure a proud moment,


Halima [Halima]: i prepare an online seesion on creating

Learning centres

silipa [undisclosed]: I agree  for giving instructions,

that is the biggest problem have to give precious  and

short insructions

helend [helen]: Sorry Svetlana I will send links to wikis

I like on list !

obenausova [undisclosed]: Thanks

Halima [Halima]: send it me too

Halima [Halima]: or post HERE!

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Rubena, your outline and

table are great and easy to use for material creation

obenausova [undisclosed]: BAW list is better

helend [helen]: I'll post after - it's better to

concentrate on Rubena now  

helend [helen]: She's saying so many interesting things my

head is spinning !!

silipa [undisclosed]: ok, I have to go , my son has high

blood suger, see you all later, will listen the tape


helend [helen]: Good luck !!

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Bye Marijana

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye, marijana!

silipa [undisclosed]: bye bye

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Bye slipa

Halima [Halima]: i see that in Spanglish  speaking


silipa [undisclosed]: great presentation Rubena clap to

you all

Halima [Halima]: there are the best COOKS!

caroll [caroll]: bye marijana

Halima [Halima]: bcs there is SPICES very neede for every


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): I love everything

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): great recipe

caroll [caroll]: it has been great!

WJcn [undisclosed]: thank you for your presentation. no

mic, sorry. I have one question: how can we creat

activities which meet individul needs and group needs at

the same time?

Moderator (slrubena [Rubena]): Thank you all

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: i have a question: How do you

deal with students who have learning problems?

Halima [Halima]: I belong to the older generation i wonder

how the heritage of best approaches are

Halima [Halima]: delivered/shared with the Young

generation in your country

Halima [Halima]: to be a GOOD COOK needs TIME!!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): and lots of practice

Halima [Halima]: yes !

helend [helen]: great suggestions !

WJcn [undisclosed]: thanks!

WJcn [undisclosed]: ya

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: it's correct the pronunciation

Moderator (Session Leader 1): very well, larissa, i think

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): TY Juan

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: In Argentina we have many

students with learning problems

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): TY Teresa

obenausova [undisclosed]: We had a blind student at the

uni. Quite a problem

Moderator (Session Leader 1): same here, juan

Ayat [undisclosed]: so do we have to organize groups

according to learning abilities or language level??? or

according to the activity???

helend [helen]: I had a lot of special needs pupils - they

really enjoyed being creative with the computers

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: slow learners! who are with

other teachers in the classroom, but with English they

vanish in the air

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: and we have to be on our own

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: thanks a lot!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): ayat, i always liked mixed

ability groups bec. they could help one another

helend [helen]: Yes I agree !

helend [helen]: They like to help each other

WJcn [undisclosed]: I agree

Moderator (Session Leader 1): mixing is great!

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): mixing - yes

Halima [Halima]: question: Iliked the idea To create the

appropriate Learning Environment

Ayat [undisclosed]: that's right!!I have trired that and

they help each other!!

Ayat [undisclosed]: thanks alot

Halima [Halima]: at our Uzbek Uni there are about 20-39

English teachers

helend [helen]: Rubena has said so much - she must need a

drink !!

Ayat [undisclosed]: sometimes we don't have enough time

for every single person to interact or to make sure they

applied language to authentic use???

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Thank you Rubena!

Halima [Halima]: But sometimes this Specific Context is

not created/developed?What are your suggestions ?

Ayat [undisclosed]: thanks alot, rubena.

helend [helen]: You'll close the door Teresa !!

WJcn [undisclosed]: thanks a lot for this great


Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes helen!   

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: thanks a lot!

slrubena [Rubena]: sorry, I got kicked out

baw2010Lana [undisclosed] 1: thanks,Rubena

slrubena [Rubena]: You're welcome.

slrubena [Rubena]: Thank you all for having me

Halima [Halima]: thak you!

caroll [caroll]: thanks to all

Moderator (Session Leader 1): nice smily stars!!!

alexandrakouk [Alexandra]: Bye everyone  

obenausova [undisclosed]: Thank you.

helend [helen]: Thank you so much Rubena - food for


WJcn [undisclosed]: bye

Moderator (Session Leader 1): lots helen!

caroll [caroll]: bye bye

slrubena [Rubena]: Thank you.all.

WJcn [undisclosed]:  

slrubena [Rubena]: bye

Moderator (Session Leader 1): and what an appropriate


Moderator (Session Leader 1): right, helen?

fernanda [Fernanda]: bye

baw2010Lana [undisclosed] 1: bye

obenausova [undisclosed]: OK, thanks a lot and bye


Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): bye Svetlana

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): It is Teresa

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): you are wlecome

slrubena [Rubena]: Thank you again Tere.

JuanDomingoMartinez [Juan]: bye+

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Bye Juan

Moderator (Session Leader 1): send our love to daf, pls

slrubena [Rubena]: Will do

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): Thank you Rubena

Moderator (Session Leader 1): we need to keep on exiting.


Moderator (Session Leader 1): naticel, it's finished

Moderator (Session Leader 1): sorry

Ayat [undisclosed]: Thank u all for a wonderful session !!

Moderator (Session Leader 1): bye ayat! take care and be


Ayat [undisclosed]: :-)

Ayat [undisclosed]: bye, sorry

naticel [Natalia]: yes

Moderator (Session Leader 1): you need to leave so we can

stop the recoprding. ty

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): me?

naticel [Natalia]: ok

Moderator (Session Leader 1): naticel and ayat

naticel [Natalia]: how can i do it?

Moderator (lolesova [Larissa]): close this window

Moderator (Session Leader 1): File Exit

Moderator (Session Leader 1): yes

Moderator: you first

Left on 4 de Fevereiro de 2011 at 16:21


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